Re: One note, that I think should be cleared up..
> % % In regards to..
> % % Since when does any of that make
> % % Unix Unix? Last I checked
> % SunOS/Solaris
> % % (and I personally own three
> % % versions) DEFINATELY does not come
> % with
> % % gcc or gdb and doesn't
> % % "really" come with cc..
> % there
> % % is a cc command, but it'll
> % % tell you it hasn't been installed
> % % c/c++ compiler does not come with
> % % OS). Most Unixes do not come with a
> % % compiler! Most Unixes either do not
> % come
> % % with X or it is an optional and
> % seperate
> % % install (once again, SunOS would be
> % % good example). To say that a REAL
> % unix
> % % would ship with GNU's programs is
> % even
> % % more wrong.
> % Erm... exactly which versions of
> % do you have? Certainly I've found
> % and therefore presumably 9 to install
> % as part of a default install -
> % it's possible to do a minimal
> % but that's not default IIRC...
> % As to GCC and the rest of the GNU
> % (shutils, etc), Sun DO supply these
> % an extra CD download (certainly for
> % Solaris 8), as life with their
> % utilities is painful, and they know it
> % otherwise, they wouldn't go to the
> % trouble of packaging up the GNU
> % AJM
> Just looked in my Jaguar CD set.. Yep,
> there it is, the little grey CD labeled
> "Developer Tools"
> By "doesn't come with gcc" you must mean
> that if the user chooses to not install
> them they aren't there... Just like
> If you want to see developer tools done
> right, get a good OS X developer to demo
> Interface Builder/ Project Builder.
> You will start to hate the GUI tools for
> As for all of the other stuff that comes
> with your idea of UNIX.. Just get fink
> from source forge. The Linux stuff
> comes over quite nicely.
> Parting Shot: You compare netinfo with
> windows registery.. I'll grant it but I
> have two words for you to ponder. "RPM
> HELL" You know what I mean, and it is
> every bit as bad as DLL HELL in the
> windows world. Only Debian has a foot
> to stand on with apt-get.
> BTW: I run Linux for my servers and OS X
> for my desktop. Been using UNIX in some
> form since AT&T on a (3B1?) Whatever
> that integrated systems was..
> No desire to go back to Linux for a
> No desire to develope GUI software for
> Linux. It just requires too much effort
> for too little gain compared to OS X.
Gentoo emerge trumps 'em all. RPM (Retarded Program Manager) truly is the bane of a civilized society. Arrrrgghhh... run away, run away! But you are correct. It simply is painfull to watch groups like Ximian and K bang out decent desktops with such paultry GUI toolage. I liken it to building the pyramids. You really can produce some incredibly precise shapes pounding away with a small stone by why in the world would you do that today? I think Ximian and K should have put a lot more effort into the tools and things would be in a much better state today. I honestly gave Glade a chance and I simply find it lacking in every repect when compared to any commercial tool available in today's market. Perhaps it's that there is so much invested in the X "middle-ware" toolkits that this just isn't feasable. Either way, that's the tact MS and Apple use to lure developers. They produce good tools. Terrible workshop, but quite nice tools.